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Tuesday, August 19, 2008

Looking Back: Hoboken in the 1950's

August 19, 2008

An email from Jim B. is worthy of a post for you who remember the old days in Hoboken.

Late comments, but the whole area of Hudson south of 4th Street was all related to the ships and liners coming in to the Port. Most of these were removed before the 50's, when the Port Authority took over the piers and the area was really cleaned up.

Above 4th Street, Hudson was all residential (and Stevens) up to 11th Street. From 11th Street up on the river side, there was Maxwell House, the can company, the Bethlehem Steel shipyards. On the West side of the street it was residential up to 13th street, where there was a company that made aluminum pie tins, a gas station, and some bars. When they put out the garbage, it usually contained defective pie tins, that were great for skimming all over the street.

There was a very slow green and yellow train that traveled down Hudson to River Street, where it would pick up freight cars from a float bridge, meaning the freight cars would be barged to Hoboken. The tracks were right in the middle of Hudson Street, and the trains could do down River Street (now Sinatra Drive). If you placed a penny on the tracks the train would flatten it.

The train would blow its horn if it could not get through with cars double parked. Elysian Park looked out over the float bridge, and there were usually freight cars parked there. We often got in trouble by playing on the freight cars, jumping from one car to another, climbing on the ladders, and opening the doors. They were always empty when I was there.

14th Street had more bars, a pool hall, and some other stores. The pool hall was always very busy. There was a party fishing boat that came in at about 15th and Hudson and people could go out to the Bay to fish.

From 12th and Hudson to 14th and Hudson, by the shipyards, were the streets that we played basketball, football and stickball on. The basketball hoop was on the 12th Street gate to the shipyards, which was good since it was lighted during evenings. Stickball and touch football were played along the Machine Shop outside. It was narrow and hemmed in between the walls and cars. On the Northwest corner of 13th street, we played stickball, pitching from the shipyards to the wall, and hits depended on how far up the wall you hit. Of course it was an out of the pitcher could catch the ball on a fly off the wall.

Both Hudson and River Streets from Observer Highway to 4th street were historically the Barbary Coast. It was a very tough area, lots and lots of bars, not the kind that make martinis. Most bars in Hoboken only served beer and mixed drinks. A mixed drink is a beer and a shot. The shipyard often had people working three shifts, 8 AM to 4 PM, 4 PM to midnight, and midnight to 8 AM. The 14th street bars opened up for two hours before and after each shift to accommodate the workers. Bars in Hoboken opened earlier than bars in NY, and some drinkers would leave the NY City bars when they closed and then came to Hoboken to continue drinking. I don't remember wine at any of the bars uptown, however at some of the Italian bars and restaurants there was always wine, I only remember red wine in tumblers, not in stemmed wine glasses.

The Clam Broth House was different. There was a bar for men only, and a dining room for both men and women. The bar had pots with clam broth where you could fill ceramic cups with the broth. When you ate the steamers, you threw the shells on the floor. Usually you had beer with the steamers. They also served great sandwiches. I only ate in the dining room a few times, it was not memorable like the bar. (Believe it or not women were not allowed in the bar up to the 1970's). The Elysian and Helmer's look pretty close to how they used to look. The Elysian had the swinging doors you would see in Westerns, but real doors outside of that which could be locked. Behind the bar was a portrait of John Grogan, former mayor. There was a pool table in what is now the dining room. Beers were served in small glasses, not the pints they are served in today.


I'm here to tell you not much of any of it looks the way Jim remembers it today. Helmer's, I'm told has been completely restored since it burned some time ago. It has been brought back in exact detail. Work is being done to bring back the Clam Broth House, but of course they will not replicate its atmosphere, with those clam shell discarded onto the floor and the cups of steaming clam broth to take the chill off.

Everybody agrees you really wouldn't want the waterfront back the way it was--grimy, smelly, and dangerous--but it can't be denied the city had a style all its own. We newbies still get a sense of it, but we can never truly know.

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

jim b has a good memory (hoboken's Barbary Coast). It was as he writes.

Too bad in the making of On the Waterfront they did not film River Street as it was back then ...a picture is worth a thousand words. That area was always where the action was, in the 50s. If you turned back the clock 100 years, it had more to offer, such as the theaters, vaudeville, and swinging door bars, and girls were dressed in their very best dresses. (A sailor's favorite port, I'm sure.) The cops on the beat had their hands full in them days...low pay but good tips for looking the other way...that's the way it was.

HOBOKEN WAS NOT BORING...I'm sure a far cry from L.A. (Lower Alabama). WELCOME TO HOBOKEN

Anonymous said...

Jim B did not mention that Hobokenites used to go over to the City (NYC) to drink after the bars closed in Hoboken. Yes Hudson and River Street were favorite places for the sailors when a ship was being worked on in the dry docks. I think Peggy's was the favorite and it was on Hudson Street between second and third. Cops didn't really have any problems with the sailors. I am not a ex-swabbie by the way. When the Holland American Line came in their crew used to fill all the German bars. MOST of the problems came from regulars who were jealous of the sailors taking the girls. Have to admit, some of the sailors were darn funny!

Anonymous said...

Just a few comments about the Clam Broth House. The reason why no women was because there was only one rest room in the place and it stunk. The cussing would peel the paper off a wall. A sandwich there would fill you up for most of the day and it was cheap! Beer in the 50s was only 25 cents a big glass and the glass was ice cold. You appreciated that in the summer time. In the winter, the hot clam broth was a treat from the cold wet weather, especially if there was snow on the ground. NYC's drinking age was 18 yrs old. Most of us went over there way before that and got served!! Got sick every time on the tubes coming home. The smell down there was awful and the rocking of the cars did not help. Maybe this was His way of telling us we were doing something wrong!!

Barbary Kid said...

I lived in the area so called "Barbary Coast" for 16 years, at 129 Hudson St. I'd like to make a correction for jim b. River Street only went from Observer Highway to the park at 4th St. It then turned right at the park and was called Shore Road all the way to 11th & Hudson St. where it ended. I enjoyed my years in Hoboken. It was fun, scarry and exciting at times. When it got boaring. We us kids ages from about 8 to 14 would make up a storie. then go tell it to a sailors or seamen in one of the bars. Then point out another seamen or sailor in another bar and say he said it. Then sit back and watch the battle until the cops came to break it up. Some times it turned into a free for all. That's when it really got good. When I go there to visit once in awhile now. I don't enjoy it any more, To many changes. It got just like New York City, including the people there. you want to change the name how about naming it Newyorkburg!

Mary Lois said...

Barbary,

You probably remember where the Empire Theater was, and lots of other great stuff about how Hoboken used to be. Keep reading and commenting--I love what you have to say.

I know it's hard to take changes in a town you liked the way it was. I just left one for that reason, and find I like Hoboken (but know I wouldn't if I had memories of it in the old days when you bad boys baited the sailors and played in the dumbwaiters.)

Anonymous said...

It is a small world!! Jim used to hang out with my older sister and her friends on the front stoop (porch out here). The Empire Theatre, that's a new one, even to an old Hobokenite like me. Bobby is right, Hoboken was not boring in any way, there was always something to do or try to do. Saturdays were a good day to sneak into the infamous "Scratch House" to see two good action pictures at a chapter of a story, plus five to ten cartoons. Some times they would show races and whoever held the winning ticket got a prize. I still remember Sam, the manager, walking down the aisles screaming at us to be quiet before the pictures started. You never wanted to get caught sneaking in the back door. Sam had a swift foot for a real heavy man and he would use it, right where you sit down.

barbary kid / charles said...

First of all, I'm really enjoying your "Finding Myself In Hoboken" So you think we were the bad boys huh? If you lived in the neighborhood with us back then. I'm sure you would have cheered us on like the rest of the girls that hung out with us did. The Empire Theater was a Vaudeville, Burlesque Theater I was told by the janitor of the apartment house we lived in. He used to play the piano for Empire and the Hudson Burlesque in Union City. The name was changed to the Rialto Theater before I moved into the neighborhood and it was already an an Opera House. It was in the earley 50's it was changed to a Movie Theater. When I moved into the hood 1943 it was used for Opera's. We seen the greatest automobiles and Limo's of the century pull up in front of that Theater. The nights the shows would play we would buy a book of matches at the corner candy store for a penny. We would then wait for intermission and hold a match for the patrons coming out of the theater, so they could light up their cigaretts and cigars. They were always good for 5 or 10 cent tip for the service. That way we had our movie money for the next day. We would go to the Rivoli Theater(Scratch House) as it was called to the locals on Washington St. The ticket used to cost 6 or 7 cents. They always showed old movies but a lot of cartoons. We had two other movie theater's in Hoboken then. We had the Fabian Theater on Newark and Washington St. The US Theater was on 7th and Washington. Them Theater's used to cost 20 to 25 cents for a ticket. But they were the nice theater's. Dennis has a lot of info and stories from our old town also. I came to find out everyone didn't like it, or had as much fun and good memories as I did. I have some stories that will make your hair curl. we'll get to them at another date.

Mary Lois said...

You must have had a great time in the old days of Hoboken, Charles. Thanks so much for joining us here and telling a few stories. Now we know about the Empire--later called the Rialto--and about those matches! What fun.

Do come back and tell us more.

Anonymous said...

You cant stop change Hoboken was made up of hard working men longshoreman shipyard railroad factorys. We live in coldwaters flats most of us did not have our own shower we would go to the ymca to shower we shared a tolit with two famlys When I was telling this to someone I was working with He told me that he did not know that I was poor when I was a kid. I told him I was never poor we just did not have any money but never ever thourgh we were poor. We had a confident in ourselfs we were tough but we had respect for ourselfs and others. If they ever bring back the Clam Broth House I hope the Men that drink there now can feel what it was like when it just a mens bar .

Anonymous said...

My family grew up in the yellow flats on 12th & Washington st .I can a test to everything he wrote !! There was more bars in Hoboken then any town in the USA !! My fathers bar was on 12th and Washington st Tains !! Remember this was the baby boom era. So there were a lot of big family's in Hoboken back then . I had 4 brothers and 2 sisters .But so did alot of my friends also ! Oh on 13th and Hudson .Was Stick ball Stratum !! It was wrote up in the NY Times back in the 60"s .A home run was over the roof !! Where the Hoboken Museum is right now .Oh by the way the fishing boats he was taking about was the Sea Star and both Palaces 2nd & 3rd !Yes Hoboken was a working class town .But i wouldn"t have wanted to grew up any place else !! I have a house in Weehawken now .But still get down to Hoboken alot .Washington st is still my main st .But with out living there .And the parking is just so much better in Weehawken !! Thanks for your memory of Hoboken .
Ken G..............>

Anonymous said...

I grew up in Hoboken in the early 50's and it was great. We lived in a cold water flat at 12th and Willow next to the old police station, which was torn down years ago. I remember churches and bars in every neighborhood. On snow days the town gave us free tickets for the movies and closed off many streets to sleigh ride. I remember 10th street park and the park at 4th street across from St. Mary's. We use to go to the factories on Clinton St. To collect empty bottles for deposits and then would buy good Italian ice. Oh the good old days.

Anonymous said...

Lived on 11th and Willow Ave. I read what one of your other readers said about not ever feeling poor, I agree with him/her. Lived on the top floor of a 5 room cold water railroad flat. Had a fire escape that brought me freash air and a feeling of freedom. Also, tar beach was the thing to do, get your blanket and your sun glasses and go up on the roof to get your tan or burn, whatever! Bar on every corner, used to look under their doors to see the color televisions, I had a black and white one that had no reception. The first time I had a bath was when I got married and had gotten an apartment in North Bergen that actually had a bathroom. Prior to that, we had a cast iron wash tub that had to do and I remember the little roaches floating around the top of the water. By the way, that was only on a Saturday night, we heated up the water for hours and each one of us would take turns getting in the water. The oldest child went first, I wasn't the oldest. Never felt poor or underprivledged!!! Loved growing up in Hoboken, people were kind and schools were good. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to express my feelings.

Mary Lois said...

Always happy to have a new contribution to this old post. Many good memories of old Hoboken, and I'll bet there are more to come from you b 'n' r's.

frank steffens said...

i lived at 1220 hudson street,with my grandfather-fred steffens.across the street was bethlehem steel.everyday on the top floor of this apartment,i could see the huge cranes,lifting steel onto the navel ships.& in the center was a set of train tracks,runing north & south of hudson..altho i wasnt born ti 1960,i do remember this very well.used to see the sailors entering & leaving the ship yard..oh & maxwell house coffee(good to the last drop)the arroma of coffee-was traveling throughout hoboken..
thanks for the memories...

Anonymous said...

We use to cross the railroad tracks and climb the hills to jersey city North Street park to go swimming. Does anyone remember the casket making company under the 14th st. Viaduct? The propellor factory on Grand Street?

Tommy S. said...

I grew up on 12th and willow during the late 50's. I remember the Police station on the corner and they had the loudspeakers outside and would make announcements. We would hitch rides on the back of the jitney buses on Washington St. to go to the Saturday matinees at the Fabian. 5 cartoons and 3 movies for a quarter! Playing roller skate hockey on the tennis courts of 10th St. park and stickball in Wallace schoolyard. I could go on and on... A great place to grow up in.
Tommy S.

June said...

MEMORIES OF HOBOKEN
With the Easter holiday approaching, I'm thinking of my step-grandfather who raised me. George Bendotti was known as Hammy by his friends, for his expertise at
chasing pigs from the Hoboken slaughterhouse across the railroad tracks when a train was approaching. As a boy, he was the breadwinner of his family, literally bringing home the bacon for his siblings and his mom, who had been widowed at an early age.

He used to take me to Hoboken on Saturday mornings in his old black car with the squared-off back, long running board, and the big Nestles Cocoa poster pasted between the two separate back seats. We'd visit his buddies Nick the Greek who raised rabbits in his yard (to my horror, he gave me a hideous, bony rabbit's foot once, when I'd asked Hammy for one to put on my bike. I thought I'd get a nice colorful green one with a brass chain like they had at the 5&10!). We'd also visit Clutch, who ran the junk yard and wore a dirty Dixie cup over his handless arm-stump.

Hammy worked the docks as a longshoreman, and would bring home goodies hidden in his quilted thermal underwear jacket...he'd call us kids into his room, unzip the jacket, and some wonderful stuff always came tumbling out! Once it was tiny radios, another time, hippie beads, but the most memorable night was when he came home bulging with little glass bottles full of cherries in some kind of alcohol, which my grandmother promptly confiscated.

Grandpa loved the holidays, and was infamous for sticking his finger in the bottom of each chocolate candy in the box (when no one was looking of course)...to see what oozed out and then decided whether to gobble it up or not. He loved me, and never complained about having to raise my sister and myself.

Hammy was sweet, a diamond in the rough. One night, long after my grandfather went to bed, I was still sitting in front of my lentil soup in the kitchen. My grandmother insisted I eat it, and to me, lentil soup didn't look like something anyone should eat; I couldn't get it down. After a few hours I began to cry a little; Hammy could hear me from his bedroom. He got up quietly, came into the kitchen, and put his finger to his lips for me to 'shush'. He sat down, ate my soup, and went back to bed.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember a bar on 1st street called Old Homestead? I did not grow up in Hoboken but my grandmother did (in the 30s-40s).

jkosty said...

Yes ! The Old Homestead was my great grandparent's bar. Our family does not own it anymore but I believe it is a restaurant now.

Anonymous said...

My parents owned Town Lunch, 215-217 Washington St. phone OL9-2006

Anyone remember the place?

Unknown said...

Does anyone remember Ray Grimes Dutch bar on Washington street? There was a Doberman who would use the cash register.

Anonymous said...

It is an excellent Cuban restaurant now. I visited it about a year ago, they left the sign on the building it was nice to see that. The food was very good as was the ambiance!

Unknown said...

10th & Willow boy here through the early 60's to '72...The Uptown bar, Muser's and Freds deli,Dr. Duke's drugstore, Truglio's Butcher...Steve's Candy Store for smokes and playing the number..down on 11th was Gene's corner grocery/bodega & the fire hydrant we opened on hot summer days (it was where the Mister Softee truck parked too) and Ray's dry cleaning across the street, the old Wallace School with a fabulous paved school yard for stickball, basketball etc..Whitey's Auto Parts which became Johnson's Tv..the hot dog wagon guy on 11th & Clinton (Mustard & Onions with a Orange-Aid or a Yoo Hoo) Grube's Diner down on 12th, and the old cop shop which I'm pretty sure was a rec center too before they tore it down. Never lived more than 3 blocks from school from grade school to high school. Have'nt been there in decades....I fly a magic carpet through the area now and then using Google birdseye views/maps.

Mary Lois said...

Sorry you're ten years late in finding this blog, Miles. We had a lot of activity for a couple of years but not many come around any more. Thanks for your magic carpet memories!

DENNIS said...

I JUST TOOK A "WALK" THRU HOBUCKEN" VIA GOOGLE. DARN IF i KNOW THE STREETS ANYMORE. A LITTLE INFORMATION, THE HOBUCKEN JAIL DOORS WERE SELDOM LOCKED, WE USED TO GET MONEY THRU THE SCREEN FACING BLOOMFIELD STREET, FROM THE JAIL BIRDS TO BUY THEM CIGARETTES AND OPEN THE PACK AND SLIM THEM THRU THE SCREEN. WE ALWAYS KEPT THE CHANGE, WHICH WAS A LOT. HOBUCKEN HAD SPECIAL POLICE AND POLICE THAT WENT THRU THE ACADEMY. THE SPECIALS WERE APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR. (SUPPOSLY). EXCUSE MY SPELLING PLEASE. i GOT EDUKATED IN HOBUCKEN. (HOBOKEN).

Unknown said...

Talk about late... I just found this since I was recently reminded how old I was by a big party. Then I got nostalgic...
I didn't grow up like many of the people posting "up town." I grew up on Newark Street close to the Police Station. And that's where we played...right on the front steps of the municipal building and the area surrounding it. That building with the jail and courthouse is exactly the same. Lucky for me, I got to go to the Academy of the Sacred Heart HS and went on to college. That building like everything else, was made of incredible stone. And yes, my tenement building had shared bathrooms and you made your own heat. I took "sponge baths."It wasn't until HSthat we had a real bathroom my sister was significantly older than me and worked at Maxwell house.

Janice

Unknown said...

Anyone remember what business was on the corner of 9th and Washington St. before Demarest TV? Was it another corner bar?

Anonymous said...

Northern New Jersey
Hoboken 1957

Standing in gangs on Washington Street, everyone on his own corner. The Black Hawks, the Gaylords, the Red Circle boys, the Crazy Eights, the Iron Dukes.
Members of other crews beefing up alliances.
Hidden side street clubrooms, numbers, spread sheets, and guns.
Standing around Friday and Saturday nights.
Street gossip, rackets, crap games, guys who were made, guys who were hit and the money that could be made from one sweet move.
Our voices purposely inflecting the Italian street lingo.
“Madonna, what a putan she was. And that Tony Shoes, a real schuminuda,1 I oughta smack the piss outta that rat bastard.”
Ages sixteen to twenty, spoiling for a fight; swift and merciless, an uppercut to the groin, a chop behind the ear, a few well placed kicks and it was over.
Savagery not tempered by youth; bodies hard, eyes narrow and cruel.
Alert and tense, smoking endlessly, fanatical about our dress; pastel Italian knit shirts with matching pants, see through silk socks and white straw shoes.
The Nicky Newark look, real sharp.
Hey, Nicky, wadda ya know? Ou gotz2 is what he knows, Friggin, Ou gotz.
Ya know there is wisdom in that, what did we know? Ou gotz we knew ou gotz and that was about all.

Mary Lois said...

This blogpost has taken on a life of its own! Such interesting stories--it would make a book or movie. I'm pleased so many have contributed to it. It brings the Hoboken of yesterday to life with a vengeance. Thanks everybody1 I put some of the Hoboken blog into an eBook you can find on amazon for a couple of dollars. It's called Me Thinks and I hope you'll check it out!

Hobie said...

Wonderful stories!
I sailed with American Export in the 80's into early 70's and, of course, Hoboken was our home port. Didn't spend much time there actually, but when we did lunch was usually at a watering hole called "The Dutch Mill." It was probably on 3rd or 4th, between the River & Washington. Anyone know?

Unknown said...

Yes my grandfather owned Spot liquor would send me to buy soup

Unknown said...

my grandfather owned Spot liquor store

Unknown said...

I was a blakhawk

Anonymous said...

We lived at 708 Willow Ave, there used to be a pizza place it was called the Blue Point does anyone remember the joint. Also an Italian deli down the block on 7st. Lived in Hoboken from 1960 - 1965

Unknown said...

Hi...I was wondering if anyone remembers Raffo's bar on 10th and Willow? That was my grandfather that I never knew. Does anyone remember him or the bar? Is anyone relatd to him out there? I would like to know if he has any relatives still in Hoboken area because I met some third cousins of his that said he was growing up there with first cousins and living above the bar at the time. He died in 1955. His name was Anthony Raffo.

Ron Barnstead said...

Hmmm… my family arrived in Hoboken in ‘62 and we lived at 10th & Willow. The bar on the corner was always the “Uptown” as far as I knew. I can’t remember the guy’s name who owned it for the 10 years we lived there was’nt Raffo so it must have been before ‘62.

Unknown said...

Yes, I believe when my grandfather died the bar was sold and my father inherited a building that my grandfather owned in Hoboken with a laundromat below and apartments above. My dad did not have a relationship with his father, which was sad, so we never found out much about him at all. I only knew that my dad sold this property not long afterward and my grandfather died in 1955. My dad passed in 1996 so obviously all the information that he may have known I can't ask anymore. There was a relative that contacted me on 23andme that used to live above the Raffo's bar on 10th and Willow and he is a third cousin to me. His father was also named John Bernard Raffo and was a first cousin to my grandfather.

Unknown said...

Do you remember the bar at 10th and willow? Was it called Raffos bar? He died and the bar was sold in 1955. That was my grandfather.

Unknown said...

Hey do you know Raffos bar on 10th and willow from 40s and 50s ?


Anonymous said...

Hello - does anyone remember Jeannette’s Lunchenette, Araks Deli, Gold’s Ice Cream Parlor - all three were on Washington Street. The 10th street park, Tucker’s Drug Store, the Tootsie Roll Factory? Mayor Grogan or Lew Wallace Director of HEW?

Anonymous said...

I remember both places, used to go and pick up empty bottles for cash

Anonymous said...

Had my wedding reception in1957 in Hoboken can't remember the name

Anonymous said...

Anyone remember Raffos bar? Near 10th and willow? The owner was John (jack) Raffo and he owned apartments above the bar? I thought his name was Anthony but I was wrong. His name was John and people called him Jack. It would have been in 40s and early 50s.

Anonymous said...

My friends and I went to Demarest High and ate lunch practically every day at Jeanette's!

Anonymous said...

Anyone remember the name of the German bar with the big glasses on first and washington

Anonymous said...

I remember going to Blue Point for pizza occasionally during my 1964-1968 years at Stevens.

Anonymous said...

I remember occasionally going to Blue Point for pizza (extra cheese, please) during my ‘64 - ‘68 years at Stevens.

Anonymous said...

Yes I remember the Blue Point, my sister had her wedding their. Across the street on the other 3 corners was a bakery, a grocery store with a pinball machine that payed out, the other corner was a bar ( swanies ) I lived around the corner 8th & Park